Egypt-pick

Jan. 13th, 2010 01:33 am
pic#200946
[personal profile] zephyrprince
Mods, if posts like this aren't allowed, please delete. (also, I'm not sure if/how I might be supposed to tag this :/, s0rry)

I'm looking for an Egypt-pick to look at a Twilight story I'm working on (yes, I am appropriately *embarrassed* that I'm writing in Twilight fandom, but there will be no mention of Bella/Edward or Bella/Jacob, just a good take-off story developing the Cairo coven who figured as minor characters in the final book, Breaking Dawn).

I've never worked with a pick before so I'm not totally sure what's standard. Ideally I would like to find someone who is willing to exchange a few e-mails while I'm still in my writing process, but other than that just to beta when it's done and offer feedback. I'm trying to do really thorough research and background reading, myself, and I'm definitely not looking for someone to *teach* me about Egypt or Egyptian culture by any means. Anyway, there wasn't anyone who offered themselves as Egypt-picks on the Beta Resources page in this comm for yuletide this year, but I thought it might still be worth asking.

If anyone is interested or might know someone who is interested, I can be reached here, or at zephyrprince.livejournal. Thanks ^_^
[personal profile] dark_administrator
We're thinking about this challenge and community, and what its future might look like, and to do that we'd like to know how the experience so far has been.

So now that authors are revealed, how did your participation in the Dark Agenda Challenge go?
What thoughts do you have about it?
How did it change your yuletide experience?
What suggestions would you have for your future self doing this next year (or next ficathon)?
Any tips and tricks you'd like to share with the rest of us? (Here's one - a good source for suitable character names is local newspapers from the region.)

What problems or frustrations did you have, either while writing, or tagging, or reading? What trends (disturbing or pleasant), did you you notice?

Would you do it again next year?
[personal profile] dark_administrator
If you've posted lists of Dark Agenda recs somewhere, please leave us a link here. (Thus far there appear to be none... this is an oversight someone should correct!)

If you have some recs that meet the Dark Agenda challenge qualifications scattered amongst your other recs, please repost them here in the comments, and we will add them to our masterlist.

Please do take advantage of AO3s shiny recs and bookmarks feature and remember to tag any fics that meet our criteria with "Dark Agenda Challenge", "Chromatic Character" and "Chromatic Source" as applicable, so that we can find them.

Remember, you can tag fics that you may not have read yet, but whose fandom or characters you might know about! Just call them bookmarks and not recs. (You can also bookmark and tag a fic you might not want to rec, for whatever reason, but which you wish to bring to our challenge's attention.)

Reccomendations for fics that meet the Dark Agenda Challenge criteria )

Additional resources:
Master list for fic with characters/actors of South Asian descent compiled by [personal profile] dharmavati
Delicious bookmarks of recs tagged by [personal profile] eruthros
[personal profile] dark_administrator
Now that the archive is live, we can see that there are 50 stories tagged "Dark Agenda Challenge".
This is awesome! Everyone who participated, rock on!

We bet, though, that there are actually a lot more stories (well, or at least some more) that qualify for the challenge, but whose authors for one reason or another didn't end up tagging them as such.

So as you read and leave feedback, please leave a comment suggesting that the author tag their fic to help other readers find it.

You can also bookmark and/or rec fics at AO3, and if you use the "Dark Agenda Challenge" tag while doing so, it will make it much easier for us to add those stories to the collection we plan to set up.

Do feel free to crosspost lists of Dark Agenda fic recs to this comm. If you have one or two amidst a bunch of others, there will be a post up in a few hours where you can comment with your recs, and we will edit them into a master list.

Thank you very much, all of you who have participated so enthusiastically in this community and challenge!
[personal profile] dark_administrator
This is a little last minute, but there is a day and a half depending on your time zone until the Yuletide 2009 exchange closes, and this year, since it has moved over to Archive of Our Own, the last minute Yuletide Madness challenge is open to everyone, regardless of whether they signed up for Yuletide or not.

If there are prompts that you have seen float by on the pinch hit list, the unfulfilled prompst list, or on people's 'dear author' letters that fulfil one or all parts of our challenge, please..
Enter them into this convenient form!
Which creates
this handy dandy spreadsheet of chromatic prompts!

If you do not have an AO3 account from which to upload your story, and your request for a code does not get answered in time, you can ask someone to upload your story for you, and they can get you listed as the author. You might be able to find betas at the official beta sign up post, our list of culture-specific betas, or by going to the IRC chat channel and asking a hippo for help.

Remember to tag your fic so we can find it.

Let's see how many Dark Agenda Challenge fics we can generate in a day and a half!
Elderly East Asian woman from AtS, with text "Chromatic"
[personal profile] dhobikikutti
Your mod wishes to apologise profusely for letting her own yuletide panic lead her to forgetting to make this announcement until [personal profile] gloss very sensibly brought it up:

We'd love it if you could take your fic with "Dark Agenda Challenge" in the AO3 archive so that we can find it. In addition, please use the "Chromatic Source" and/or "Chromatic Character" tags to let us know which aspect of the challenge your story answers.

Also, there should be a range of tags such as "Hindu Character" "Muslim Character" "Jewish Character" "Desi Character" "Asian Character" "Character of Color" etc that you can use to provide specificity and also help other enthusiasts find your fic.

We will probably set up a formal "Dark Agenda Collection" at AO3 to which you can add your stories, but that will be in the future after certain people like me have stopped being eaten by the Yuletide bears.
man looking out the window and grinning
[personal profile] gloss
Since AO3 has such nifty tagging features, is anyone thinking of tagging their stories with "dark agenda"?

I think it would be a great way to sort and collate, but I am also very, very tired and possibly not seeing any downsides. Thoughts?
Elderly East Asian woman from AtS, with text "Chromatic"
[personal profile] dhobikikutti
We're getting to the point where Yuletide panic is beginning to set in, so please make sure you have your betas lined up.

You can look for a culture and canon specific beta over on our beta resources post. That is also the place where comments are screened so you can ask for assistance in finding a beta.

You can also try to find a fandom specific beta over on the main yuletide beta post.

We did promise that part of our way to encourage participation in this challenge was helping you find a beta, but we can't do it last minute, so if you think there are fandoms you might be writing pinch hits or treats for, get your beta lined up in advance!

Remember, a beta can also be useful in bouncing ideas off of, especially when you are unsure about the appropriateness or cultural sensitivity of a certain writing choice.
[personal profile] dark_administrator
It is about 24 hours till sign-ups for the Yuletide 2009 fanfic exchange close, because they close Thursday 9th November 9pm Eastern Time.

Please consider taking a look at the continually updated list of neediest fandoms, and making sure you have offered those on it that you can. Taking some of the more popular fandoms off your offered list will also help increase the chances of your being assigned one of the rarer ones.

Do also please take a look at the list of unrequested fandoms - there are several fandoms that someone cared enough to suggest that we add to our list, so it would be great to have those chromatic fandom prompts made, in order to encourage people to write them.

Finally, this awesome spreadsheet maintained by [livejournal.com profile] elishabet and [livejournal.com profile] attempt_unique has a list of who has requested what fandoms! Do a simple search to track the chromatic fandom(s) you think you can write for, head over to the list of Dear Writer posts to get the full prompts and details, and you can start working on a story even if you don't end up being assigned a chromatic fandom to write.

We'd also love it if you could pimp our challenge and community resources around, especially to comms that focus on the fandoms we have listed - it would be great to encourage more people interested in K dramas, manga, Bollywood etc to sign up!
[personal profile] dark_administrator
Hello!

We have been updating the chromatic creators list as we have time; please let us know if you have any additions or fandom descriptions or pimping posts to add, or if you have any questions or suggestions about classifications.

We are particularly looking for current Yuletide fandoms from Latin@, Arab, African, and Native American/First Nations/indigenous North and South American creators, as they have the least representation on our current list. Thanks for your help!
white ermine with berries
[personal profile] dhobikikutti
[personal profile] inkstone said in her post: "My wish for Yuletide is that people who offer to write in anime and manga (and manhwa and manhua, if there are manhua being offered) fandoms, and do write in those fandoms, to please do so with respect to the source's host culture."

She was prompted by [personal profile] wistfuljane's observation:
I've noticed some trends in animanga fanworks that left me rather perplexed:
  • the prevalent of historical AUs set in Regency or some other British historical periods and the rather absence of historical AUs set in say Heian, Edo or some other Japanese or Asian periods;
  • the prevalent of stories based on European fairy tales or folklores and the rather lack of stories based on Japanese or Asian fairy tales or folklores;
  • the prevalent of stories centering around (party) games or activities that either originated in America or more common there and the rather absence of stories centering around (party) games or activities that originated in Japan/Asia or more common there


Then, of course, there's the rather lack of anime vids set to non-English songs. (And the more nitpicking stuffs like glaringly out-of-place English sayings or phrases in fanfic.)


[insanejournal.com profile] the_willow made the following post in response which sums up one of the critical problems inherent in Western and White consumption of manga and anime:
Part of the reason the Japanese elements disappear is that the Japanese elements are seen, by a lot of those consuming the animan(ga/hwa/hua) as fantasy elements already; due to them seeing the characters as white[...] Because anime and manga are brought to the US to be consumed, and marketers have determined and actually have a stake in perpetuating 'everyone in the world is just like the US, but with a few quirks'; because it makes things simple and the simpler a thing is, the more easily it can be consumed[...]
Thus essential Asianess, whether it is Japaneseness, Koreaness, Chineseness, and others, etc... is presented as similar to Midwesterness, East Coastness, Southerness etc... a geographic peculiarity with local legends and quirks that is essentially American.


In comments, [personal profile] zephyrprince makes the point:
I do think there would be some level of difference between English-language fans entering something like Bollywood or K-Drama fandoms en mass though I guess in that watching these texts involves focusing your eyes on actual non-white bodies whereas anime, manga, and videogame characters are animated, drawn, or computer generated. I do think that the claims that all manga/anime characters are white are somewhat racist and inaccurate, but it does seem to make a difference when one is seeing actual Of Color features/phenotypes on flesh-and-blood bodies.


To which [personal profile] franzeska responds:
One thing I notice a lot with manga is that there's plenty in Japanese (though probably a low overall percentage) that makes issues of culture and race inescapable. Anything about immigrants in Japan or that's set other places in Asia or outside of Japan in general tends to make some of that stuff explicit in the text and/or art[...] But that's not what gets translated professionally, and it's usually not what gets scanlated."


As [personal profile] oyceter says, there is a problem "with people who use anime/manga as a type of ghetto pass, like it somehow absolves them of racism, or on the flip side, people who are enamoured of Japan and fetishize Japan and Japanese people".

The western consumption of manga and anime should not take away from the place they hold in their source cultures, nor the chromatic nature of their creators and characters. This is the reason they have been included in our list for the most part (with some exceptions). We would like, though, for you to think about the issues involved in consuming and writing for these sources!

ETA (1 Dec 09): [personal profile] troisroyaumes has an excellent post on the political implications of forming opinions based only on exposure to translated manhwa -
I want you to think about who decides what to translate and why, how they market the translation, and what all that says both about the audience receiving the translation and the people making the decision.[...]Are the conclusions we draw about trends in Japanese literature biased by the authors that get translated? Are those authors representative of the tastes of a particular subsection of Japanese readers--young versus old, male versus female, well-educated versus less-educated, etc.--or are they more representative of our tastes as a English-reading audience?
white ermine with berries
[personal profile] dhobikikutti
The underlying issue:
A lack of representation in both source and fandom of chromatic creators and characters, exemplified in the Yuletide Fic Exchange.

The challenge:
  • Part one: Request and offer to write for some of the fandoms on this list.
  • Part two: Do whatever it takes to be able to upload at least one Yuletide treat in the aforementioned fandoms during the Yuletide Madness period. A drabble, if not a fic. A character study, if not a plotty epic.

How we will help you:
  • By collating lists of suitable fandoms, and pimp posts and critiques of them.
  • By organising culture- language- and fandom- specific beta lists, and helping you track them down.
  • By gathering links to helpful writing and researching tips.
  • By maintaining a list of all the requests made for chromatic fandoms, as soon as they show up either on the pinch hitters list, or on the website.
  • By offering to upload your stories for you if you are unable to do so during the specific time period open for Yuletide treats.

Our suggested hierarchy:
  • First, write for a language and culture other than your own.
  • Second, support sources that are as authentic and unproblematic as they can be, especially in relation to those made about a culture from outside it.
  • Third, celebrate actual source cultures before reinterpretations of it, because there just isn't enough of the first; i.e. realistic representations before retellings of myths, and actual religions before fantasy send-ups of them.
  • Fourth, if you end up writing problematic source, engage in fixing it: finding the invisible people of colour and putting them back in, writing the back story for a character without tying it into the white people's narratives, showing not telling the blind spots and bigotry and flaws in the celebrated white heroes of the narrative.

Caveats:
  • We use the term 'chromatic' as an umbrella definition for 'sourcelander', 'hyphenate', 'diasporian', 'person of colour', 'non-white', while we acknowledge that it has shortcomings. Similarly, we accept that there is a certain flattening in our 'White / Western /Other' terminology.
  • We are not the final or authoritative arbitrators of what is offensive or acceptable. There is no such thing as universal agreement.
  • We cannot and will not police authenticity or accuracy in sources, betas, or stories. We will accept and include clarifications and corrections about any opinions or facts we might state.

Resources:


We hope you enjoy participating, and are very glad you have decided to do so!
white ermine with berries
[personal profile] dhobikikutti
This is a very short list of the mistakes that can be made when writing about a race, culture or religion that is not one's one, and not well or adequately representing in the mainstream media around us. Feel free to suggest articles and posts that have proven useful to you, and I will add them to this list.

  • Cultural appropriation is not only a huge problem, but a hard to define, let alone police one. I actually think it is fairly easy to avoid the most common problem, by choosing to focus on the characters whose culture is in question. Let them be the protagonist, and not ultimately the agent to further the white or Other character's journey, and and you have reduced the intrusion of your own identity into the story.
  • Writing for yourself, sometimes at the cost of excluding those to whom the source belongs. While defending everyone's freedom to write whatever they want, it is unfortunate when the decision to play in someone else's sandbox ends up coming across as tracking mud across their temple. Yuletide is safer that way, since you know that you will be writing something that has been explicitly asked for and desired by at least one person. Thus, I refuse to read Hindu religious fic, but there are other desis who want it. A little poking around your recipient's profile is a good idea, so that you do not end up writing, for instance, something that they will find inappropriately sexual about characters they consider sacred.
  • Racist and offensive tropes: Magical Negroes, Noble Savages, Helpful Honkies... The way to educate yourself about these tropes is so HARD! You have to head over to the TV Tropes race section and get sucked into the black hole lost in the intertubes some larnin'. It's scary.
  • Superimposing identities is actually one of the most common problems I find in fiction written by people who have researched for facts, but not culture. Characters are given motivations and emotions that are presumed universal but are in fact highly culture specific. Not every teenager will feel entitled to whine about how unfair their parents are, not every woman will see choosing family over love as a tragedy, not every man will think of living with his parents as a sign of failure. The only real way to understand cultural motivations is to immerse yourself into tonnes of different voices from it; historical and fictional and written and spoken and lived. For one source though, a good beginning is to choose not to stray too far from the path -- if the narrative voice says the character chose to do or feel something, accept it, and make that the conclusion, rather than the justification for going AU.
  • Getting the details right is really just the most aggravating process, because most of us have been on the other side of being completely jarred out of a story that got One! Tiny! Completely Insignificant To The Narrative! thing wrong, and holding a grudge against it entirely out of proportion to its flaws. And there is only so much you can do with research, and [livejournal.com profile] little_details and even a beta. Which is why writing outside your comfort zone is so much easier to do for an exchange like Yuletide, where there are people happy just to story at all, and where criticism is extremely subdued. And also, added bonus, the archive switches over to AO3 where you can easily edit your story without bothering [livejournal.com profile] elynross!
  • How manga and anime get consumed in the west often cause a lot of problematic fanfic generation. This post contains a starting point to discussions that will help to see the problems and then avoid them. In brief: no more Regency AUs!

Note: This list was modifed from material from this post. It is a work in progress, and as such will be continually edited and added to.
white ermine with berries
[personal profile] dhobikikutti
Note: In my personal hierarchy of diversity, it is more important to support chromatic creators, and sources made by the people they represent. In addition, many White and Western sources come with deeply problematic racial and cultural depictions of their characters, and yet they end up being more popular and disseminated than more authentic representations.
That said, many of us love sources that are problematic for a variety of reasons, and as fans, one of the wonderful things we can do is produce fic that critiques, challenges and complicates the flaws in the source.
So if you do decide to write for these (and seriously, do it in addition to rather than instead of writing for the first list), please make sure you hunt for critique of the source, and write something that does not add to the problems of misrepresentation.

List of Chromatic Characters in White/Western/Other Created Yuletide 2009 Fandoms

PLEASE USE THIS FORM TO ADD INFORMATION TO THIS LIST (Made by the wonderful [personal profile] thuviaptarth)
Links to posts that comment on the source's racial and cultural representations are especially needed. We'll be editing this post continually to keep up with new information as we get it, so corrections, explanations, and counter-opinions to any commentary about the source is most welcome.
white ermine with berries
[personal profile] dhobikikutti
Betas -

Japan:
  • [livejournal.com profile] ncc_gqmf
  • [livejournal.com profile] lelek
  • [profile] maat_sheshat (Fandoms: Genji and Onmyoji, Heian Japan)
  • [personal profile] athenejen (Fandoms: The Seven Samurai, Genji, Japanese history, most Studio Ghibli anime and related manga)
  • [personal profile] oyceter (Fandoms: 20th Century Boys, Azumanga Daioh, Claymore, Clover, Grand Guignol Orchestra, Haibane Renmei, Honey and Clover, Koukou Debut, Land of the Blindfolded, Mars, Monster, Mushishi, Nana, Ooku, Paradise Kiss, Pluto, Ponyo, Skip Beat, Spirited Away, Tramps Like Us, Twelve Kingdoms aka Juuni Kokki, The Wallflower, Yotsubato
  • [personal profile] inkstone (Fandoms: Blade of the Immortal, Black Lagoon, Ghost Hunt, Gilgamesh, Kamikaze Girls, Koukou Debut, Mars, Mononoke, Ooku, Saiunkoku Monogatari, Samurai Deeper Kyo, Skip Beat, Twelve Kingdoms)

India:
  • [livejournal.com profile] applegnat
  • [personal profile] dharmavati (Fandoms: Bend It Like Beckham, Dil Bole Hadippa, Fashion (movie), Jab We Met, Kal Ho Naa Ho, Luck By Chance (movie), Mr. and Mrs. Iyer (film); can help with questions about general Indian culture and also specifically help with Tamil/Iyer culture.)
  • [profile] solvent90
  • [profile] maat_sheshat (Fandoms: Dhoom 2, Kal Ho Na Ho, canon only not culture)
  • [livejournal.com profile] wasabi_girl1 (Fandoms: Bend It Like Beckham, Devdas, Dhoom 2, Dil Bole Hadippa, Dil Chahta Hai, Dostana, Kal Ho Naa Ho, Kaminey, Monsoon Wedding and Omkara.)

China and Taiwan:
  • [personal profile] oyceter (Fandoms: Black & White, Mythology - Chinese, Red Cliff)
  • [personal profile] athenejen (Fandoms: Initial D (movie), Journey to the West, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, anything related to Chinese history, some Asian-American history)
  • [livejournal.com profile] chiana606
  • [personal profile] glass_icarus
  • [livejournal.com profile] zoi_no_miko (tag-team with hubby for Cantonese beta)

Korea:

Phillipines:


Ethiopia
  • [personal profile] oyceter (Fandoms: Elizabeth E Wein - The Aksuma series)


Note: All comments to this entry are screened, so that you may provide information or ask for a beta while maintaining Yuletide anonymity.

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