kickair8p (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
kickair8p) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
dark_agenda2010-06-15 11:38 am
kickair8p) wrote in dark_agenda2010-06-15 11:38 am
But racebending the other way's good, right? Right?
(I've already posted this over in foc_u, but I thought it would be of interest here as well.)
DAZ 3D is a company that provides (relatively) inexpensive 3D software and the 3D content to use in it -- people use these to create various artworks, from 3D animations to rendering simple 2D stills (that's what I do -- check out http://kickair8p.deviantart.com/gallery/ if you're interested). Most of the content isn't made by DAZ itself, they act as a brokerage for independent content creators.
One of these is Tony Puryear. He's "half-black and half-Swedish-American", and if you check out his website ( http://www.tonypuryear.com/ ) you'll see he's got a graphic novel coming out that's all about PoC. He's not somebody I'd call a racist. Nor am I calling him that now -- I just think he's inadvertently doing something racist.
I could be overreacting. Maybe I'm seeing an issue that isn't there. But . . .
Tony's most recent products are an as-yet-incomplete set called "Road of Heroes" based on Norse Mythology. He put up a couple "upcoming" promo shots, including this one:
To which I posted a response: " . . . and Odin seems snazzy. But Loki . . . maybe it's a trick of the angle and lighting, but it looks like he has a broad nose, thick lips, and darker skin. I'd hate to think that the one member of this version of the Norse pantheon with features inexplicably indicating African ancestry was also the canonical bad guy."
Tony's response:
(The whole thing's here: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?p=2390353#2390353 )
Am I wrong here? Is that not a black guy (with a little green added in) representing the canonical villain in an otherwise all-white cast? Whoops, almost all-white -- I initially forgot Nott ( http://www.daz3d.com/i/3d-models/0/nott-goddess-of?item=10817 ), an obscure Goddess of the Night. Isn't it a bit hinky that the Norse goddess with the apparent African ancestry is a goddess of literal darkness? She's not black, though, nope -- she's blue.
On the one hand I want to applaud Tony's efforts to include PoC in his take on one of the original all-white pantheons -- he's probably getting flack for that alone. On the other . . . the villain and the night goddess? Am I over-reacting, or is Tony not seeing the issue?
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DAZ 3D is a company that provides (relatively) inexpensive 3D software and the 3D content to use in it -- people use these to create various artworks, from 3D animations to rendering simple 2D stills (that's what I do -- check out http://kickair8p.deviantart.com/gallery/ if you're interested). Most of the content isn't made by DAZ itself, they act as a brokerage for independent content creators.
One of these is Tony Puryear. He's "half-black and half-Swedish-American", and if you check out his website ( http://www.tonypuryear.com/ ) you'll see he's got a graphic novel coming out that's all about PoC. He's not somebody I'd call a racist. Nor am I calling him that now -- I just think he's inadvertently doing something racist.
I could be overreacting. Maybe I'm seeing an issue that isn't there. But . . .
Tony's most recent products are an as-yet-incomplete set called "Road of Heroes" based on Norse Mythology. He put up a couple "upcoming" promo shots, including this one:
To which I posted a response: " . . . and Odin seems snazzy. But Loki . . . maybe it's a trick of the angle and lighting, but it looks like he has a broad nose, thick lips, and darker skin. I'd hate to think that the one member of this version of the Norse pantheon with features inexplicably indicating African ancestry was also the canonical bad guy."
Tony's response:
(The whole thing's here: http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?p=2390353#2390353 )
Am I wrong here? Is that not a black guy (with a little green added in) representing the canonical villain in an otherwise all-white cast? Whoops, almost all-white -- I initially forgot Nott ( http://www.daz3d.com/i/3d-models/0/nott-goddess-of?item=10817 ), an obscure Goddess of the Night. Isn't it a bit hinky that the Norse goddess with the apparent African ancestry is a goddess of literal darkness? She's not black, though, nope -- she's blue.
On the one hand I want to applaud Tony's efforts to include PoC in his take on one of the original all-white pantheons -- he's probably getting flack for that alone. On the other . . . the villain and the night goddess? Am I over-reacting, or is Tony not seeing the issue?
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*goes off to corner and grumbles before I punch something*
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Stepping back a little further, I think the problem of portraying the 'good' gods as blond and nordic and the 'bad' one as _other_ - whatever shape the othernerness takes - is a problem full stop.
[*] That's another rant altogether. When I was building a runtime, I was looking to find characters that would allow me to depict humanity-as-I-know-it. You can get an endless supply of white female characters with supermodel features; different ethnicities and skin colours and particularly hairstyles or clothes can be exceedingly hard to find. There's an endless argument cycle of 'we don't produce it because it doesn't sell but if it doesn't exist, people can't buy it'.
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http://forum.daz3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=141653&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60
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I think you're making good points, and I think it's high time those issues were discussed.
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I *wish* I hadn't hit 'refresh' on my browser and I sincerely hope someone has saved them because there were a number of good points. I particularly liked your way to use Thor's and Loki's common heritage, which would break through the 'bad guys look like this.'
I have to admit to being very disappointed with the DAZ moderators, whom I don't remember as this heavy-handed. There is no explanation, no moving of the thread, no private messages to say 'we've deleted this because' (I do not feel I have been in any way, shape, or form disrespectful of anyone else in the thread). All that's left is something that looks like happy little DAZ families which is a false representation of reality. (I would not have been happy if the content had been deleted with a moderator explanation, but at least the rest of the readers would know that there has been a controversy.)
But hey, I'm happy that I've found your handle here - I've always enjoyed your posts, I just haven't had much time to hang out in the forums lately.
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Glad I found you here too!
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And this is my own personal view on Loki but I never pictured him as being big and clunky. He's not the Hulk. *laugh* He's a trickster... sly and fast. But that's another issue altogether.
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Mod note
Since we had not made this clear in our profile, this isn't a reprimand, merely a clarification.
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No, that's not drawing on racist tropes at all! /sarcasm
*headdesk*
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Then again, questioning assumptions further, this refers mostly to the kind of hitting/bodyslamming barfighting common in certain cultures; when you add weapons, martial arts (or, in fiction, magic) the odds can change drastically. Maybe it's the quietly confident guy with the grace of a dancer you need to watch, not the big lumbering bloke with slow reflexes.
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